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[Music]

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hi I'm Michelle be Kuzma and I present

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the logical fallacy segment of the

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skeptic zone so keeping in theme I'm

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going to highlight some important ways

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that we can use critical thinking to buy

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ourselves through the current covert 19

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pandemic firstly be aware of the

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slippery slope fallacy where we reject a

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course of action because despite a lack

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of evidence to the contrary we think it

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will lead to a chain of events

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culminating in something bad it's

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important that all those some very

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negative things are going to happen that

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we don't catastrophize or worry about

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things that actually may never happen

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the false dilemma fallacy is also one we

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should keep in mind rarely do we find

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ourselves in a strict either/or position

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most scenarios do not comprise two

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diametrically opposed incites but have

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many shades of grey black and white

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thinking will prevent us from being able

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to assess possibilities along a

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continuum and squander our chances of

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reframing issues in new ways while the

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pandemic is indeed very scary there will

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also be innovation and opportunities

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arising as a result so look out for

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those others to watch out for other

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correlation equals causation fallacy the

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hasty generalization fallacy the

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anecdotal evidence fallacy and so many

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more they are too numerous to mention

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however one thing we know is that

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skepticism and critical thinking a

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paramount in these times and we should

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be drawing on the vast array of

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resources they have given us while

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continuing to support those who make

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that possible for us

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and let's not forget our compassionate

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caring generous side and support each

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other through this crisis until we come

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out the other side welcome to the

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sceptic zone the podcast from Australia

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for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 597 for the 22nd of March

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2020 Rashad Saunders coming to you this

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week from Sydney Australia and thank you

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to our new reporter Michelle Bica SMAW

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for that little message at the top of

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the show in the coming weeks you'll hear

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some more messages from our reporters

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all around the world and I must admit I

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did put a very difficult proposition to

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them all I said please send in a message

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we can play to our listeners an

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encouraging message in these hard times

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and the message back from them to me was

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what do we say well what does anybody

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say at the moment I guess the best we

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can do here at the skeptic zone is keep

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the show going keep the show going so

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you can be hopefully entertained and

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informed so coming up on this week's

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show I speak to somebody else who keeps

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you entertained and informed Brian

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Dunning from skeptoid the skeptoid

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podcast now he made all the back catalog

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of skeptoid free for everybody until

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recently it's only been premium members

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who can enjoy listening to the more than

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700 episodes of skeptoid well in these

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hard times Brian has made the whole back

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catalogue free i chat to him about that

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and also we look at some covert 19

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conspiracy theories which there are many

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and no doubt there will be many many

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many more in the years to come

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following that it's news from our

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friends at the good thinking Society in

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the UK about their ongoing battles with

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homeopathy and I report about some

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practitioners here in Australia of

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applied kinesiology and homeopathy

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making well diplomatically I could say

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making very bold statements about kovat

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19 and that is being diplomatic when you

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hear the report you will wonder why I am

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being so diplomatic maybe I haven't had

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enough coffee yet be

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weary be warned be careful of dodgy

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advice coming from alt Medicine about

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covert 19 then it's the welcome return

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of the book of Tim Jim Mendham the

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executive officer and the editor of the

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skeptic magazine here in Australia

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dropped by the studio the other day and

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we recorded quite a lot of new episodes

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of the book of Tim this week part one of

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a three-part series about the time

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almost seven years ago Australian

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skeptics tested water divining then the

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ran off the show maynard comes back with

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more interviews from skeptic on 2019

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this week maynard talks to one of the

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attendees catherine about her

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experiences with the anti-vaxxer on sir

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give bob novella and the Entertainer

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conspiracy of one yes we're all in for a

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bumpy ride I think it does as well to

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keep pondering the future when better

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days will come and they will come back

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again and I hope shows like the skeptics

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own and skeptoid and now the skeptical

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podcasts can keep you at least

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entertained while you're confined to

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your homes or whatever you're doing

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please stay tuned at the end of the show

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for an important message from me but now

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it's time for me to run downstairs make

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myself some onion soup and what oh all

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the onions have gone hmm

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okay run downstairs wash my hands make

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myself some potato and leek soup yeah

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okay while I do that I hope you enjoy

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the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now on the line all the

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way from the beautiful city of Bend in

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Oregon from skip Toit it's Brian Dunning

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hello Brian hello Richard how are you

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sir

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actually getting by you know we're all

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coping I think we're all coping as best

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as we can it's it's it's bizarre times

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I've and we were just chatting a moment

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ago you and I and the population of the

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planet has never seen anything quite

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like this

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yeah it's it I mean the only thing I can

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compare it to is 9/11 how everything was

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closed down there was you know no

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civilian or commercial air track traffic

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for three whole days which was very

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strange in the United States and you

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know people were stuck all over the

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world people couldn't get back it was a

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it's the only thing I can think of

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that's even close to just how weird the

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atmosphere is yeah and that eventually

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settled down but this we don't have a

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true end date which is a little bit

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frightening yeah I I have I really

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thought that this was gonna last two

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weeks that the lock downs are going to

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be two weeks and now two weeks into that

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we're just they're really starting to

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impose the big lockdowns with all

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college campuses being closed down

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cities being closed down curfews being

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imposed our governor here just ordered

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all businesses closed except for

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pharmacies and supermarkets it's it's

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really strange times

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it's strange times and everybody around

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the world listening to this can

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absolutely identify with what we're

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saying because for the first time maybe

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it's the first time in the history of

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our species the whole world is battling

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the one enemy it's it's remarkable yeah

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that's that's a very interesting point

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you're right you're right everyone

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everyone has a common enemy right now

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everyone has a common

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it's going to be interesting to see what

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societal changes that will bring but the

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reason I'm contacting you is because a

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couple of days ago on my Facebook feed

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up popped a notice from skeptoid you've

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made the entire back catalogue of skip

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toyed over 700 episodes

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free for everybody to download what

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prompted that well just the the

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situation with so many people being self

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quarantined or social distancing or

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whatever you want to call it being stuck

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at home we thought gee what can what

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what is there anything that skeptoid can

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can reasonably do and clearly it was

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that and there's there's a number of

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reasons for that first of all it's just

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it gives people one more way to be

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entertaining entertained and passed the

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time but second of all skeptoid is all

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about critical thinking and with a new

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coronavirus conspiracy theory in the

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news every hour and a new quack cure

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being coming out this was a way to get

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to get some really quick easily

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accessible critical thinking information

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into more people's hands so yeah we just

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opened up the entire catalog to everyone

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normally premium members who who are

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supporters of the program can can access

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the whole catalog but most people it's

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just the most recent 50 episodes which

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is more than enough for for most

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listeners to any podcast but so now

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anyone who wants you can come to the

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website skeptoid comm search for

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whatever the topic is that you're

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interested in and listen to all the

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episodes unlimited so we thought it was

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a good idea to do something that we were

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able to do and the response has been

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very positive to it I think it's

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marvelous

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I really do in in these hard times

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because you know to be frank with all

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our listeners out there you and I rely

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heavily on the the kindness and the

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patronage of our listeners to get our

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shows up and running and keep going and

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in these tough times I know a lot of

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people will have to carefully think

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about what they spend their money on so

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for you to make everything available to

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subscribers and nonsubscribers alike I

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think that says a lot but talking about

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conspiracy

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season quite cures and we talking about

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some quack advice a bit later on in the

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show in the next segment but you're

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right and I'm hardly surprised that

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there are conspiracies popping up right

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left and center one of the ones that was

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brought to my attention by our reporter

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Michelle big asthma is that the real

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reason this whole pandemic is happening

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you said they can cleaner out pubs

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offices schools etc to install 5g towers

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or relay stations yeah yeah I I had

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heard that I actually went on the radio

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here in Oregon last last weeks to talk

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about corona virus conspiracy theories

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and and this one was brand new at the

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time that that concur oh no virus kovat

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19 the disease doesn't exist and it's

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just a hoax

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to cover up 5g syndrome that everyone's

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actually who's dying and getting sick

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they're actually dying from 5g cell

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phone signals and it did this new one

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that you just mentioned I only heard

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about that one today yeah that it's just

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a hoax to get people off the street so

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that they the evil government can

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install the 5g but it's a and I know I

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have personal experience that these are

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being widely believed because I've had

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family members personal friends a guy

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right here in town who texts me every

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five minutes all believing this

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thoroughly and calling me and asking me

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about it and expecting me to confirm

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that that's in fact true and being very

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surprised when I say no it's not so it's

276
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no matter

277
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you cannot come up with a wild enough

278
00:12:40,329 --> 00:12:39,379
conspiracy theory that a lot of people

279
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aren't gonna believe it wholeheartedly

280
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yeah you know it's and all the years you

281
00:12:47,409 --> 00:12:45,350
and I have been doing this and I know

282
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what you say is very true you cannot

283
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come up with something too crazy

284
00:12:56,019 --> 00:12:52,910
now you covered 5g not so long ago on

285
00:12:58,359 --> 00:12:56,029
skeptoid didn't you yeah yeah talking

286
00:12:59,499 --> 00:12:58,369
about I mean it's the same it's it's the

287
00:13:02,109 --> 00:12:59,509
same thing that comes out every time

288
00:13:05,079 --> 00:13:02,119
there's a new we had it with with smart

289
00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:05,089
meters the electrical meters or utility

290
00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:06,769
meters at your house that transmit their

291
00:13:11,949 --> 00:13:09,649
data so that the utility gets

292
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better faster cheaper more regular

293
00:13:16,749 --> 00:13:14,540
information you know it's genuinely a

294
00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:16,759
good thing for everyone and people are

295
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:18,920
protesting it why well because it uses

296
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radio this idea that radio is harmful to

297
00:13:29,739 --> 00:13:25,279
people is just I mean it's astoundingly

298
00:13:31,569 --> 00:13:29,749
wrong yeah you know and anyone listening

299
00:13:33,009 --> 00:13:31,579
to this you've you've heard the sign you

300
00:13:36,009 --> 00:13:33,019
you're familiar with the science behind

301
00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:36,019
this and y5g can't hurt anyone or why

302
00:13:41,319 --> 00:13:38,360
any other sort of radio signals can't

303
00:13:43,329 --> 00:13:41,329
hurt anyone anything that's below the

304
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:43,339
ionizing radiation limit kind of right

305
00:13:47,619 --> 00:13:45,410
at the top of ultraviolet light on the

306
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:47,629
visible spectrum anything is below that

307
00:13:53,019 --> 00:13:49,730
simply doesn't interact with human

308
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:53,029
tissue and so it has no potential to do

309
00:14:01,569 --> 00:13:56,290
any harm it cannot cause any chemical

310
00:14:04,090 --> 00:14:01,579
changes in the body so it's and we have

311
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:04,100
literally the entire history of the

312
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:06,170
human race to to prove this to us

313
00:14:12,489 --> 00:14:08,569
because the greatest source of radio of

314
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:12,499
all of course is the Sun and the radio

315
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:13,970
signals from the Sun aren't hurting us

316
00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:16,490
the highest frequency of those visible

317
00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:18,769
light those certainly don't hurt us we

318
00:14:23,619 --> 00:14:20,660
go out and we see we looking through

319
00:14:25,540 --> 00:14:23,629
visible light every day doesn't hurt us

320
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:25,550
what does hurt us well it's when you

321
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:28,160
cross into that ionizing radiation

322
00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:30,079
threshold up at the top of UV where you

323
00:14:34,239 --> 00:14:32,300
can start to get a sunburn and then it

324
00:14:36,519 --> 00:14:34,249
just you take it from there x-rays gamma

325
00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:36,529
rays everything else that is definitely

326
00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:39,860
harmful to the human tissue and that's

327
00:14:42,869 --> 00:14:41,569
just simply not where cellphone signals

328
00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:42,879
are in the spectrum

329
00:14:48,129 --> 00:14:45,889
absolutely and folks I recommend that

330
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:48,139
episode of skeptoid and now of course

331
00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:50,089
subscribe and unsubscribe I can

332
00:14:54,489 --> 00:14:52,220
recommend the whole back catalog of

333
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:54,499
skeptoid now over the years and years

334
00:14:57,549 --> 00:14:56,089
and years and years and years and years

335
00:14:59,980 --> 00:14:57,559
that you've been doing this Brian

336
00:15:03,189 --> 00:14:59,990
are there any standout episodes that for

337
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:03,199
you personally keep bringing true or you

338
00:15:08,379 --> 00:15:05,410
keep coming back to or people comment on

339
00:15:10,299 --> 00:15:08,389
yeah you know it's it goes all the way

340
00:15:13,239 --> 00:15:10,309
back to the earliest year or two of

341
00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:13,249
skeptoid there is a two-part series on

342
00:15:18,189 --> 00:15:15,769
logical fallacies those are the ones

343
00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:18,199
that have I think by far the longest

344
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:21,470
legs that people still refer back to and

345
00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:23,120
listen to and down the

346
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:26,120
and they I know that a lot of teachers

347
00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:29,750
print out the transcript pages and hand

348
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:31,940
them out to classrooms and everything so

349
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:34,310
yeah but that the 2 or the 2 episodes on

350
00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:36,560
logical fallacies those are always the

351
00:15:41,620 --> 00:15:39,140
go-to and then another one that I've

352
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,630
heard we've had really good response to

353
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,800
this on social media by the way

354
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:44,240
everyone's been saying oh that's so

355
00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:45,529
wonderful and awesome of you I'm saying

356
00:15:50,019 --> 00:15:48,350
yeah it was pretty easy to do but there

357
00:15:51,810 --> 00:15:50,029
the one thing people say I want to go

358
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,820
back and I want to listen to the one on

359
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,600
reverse speech

360
00:15:59,470 --> 00:15:56,000
I think the title of the episode is when

361
00:16:02,079 --> 00:15:59,480
people talk backwards yeah and I mean

362
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:02,089
that was I thought that that subject was

363
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:03,890
just we're gonna play a couple of lines

364
00:16:09,579 --> 00:16:06,290
from popular rock songs backwards and

365
00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:09,589
see what they sound like that is so just

366
00:16:15,579 --> 00:16:12,080
barely the tip of the iceberg into how

367
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,589
deep this goes you know the the basic

368
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:17,600
the basic claim that some of these

369
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:21,200
people believe is that when we speak our

370
00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:24,170
brains are saying what we really think

371
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:27,230
in Reverse so if any time I say anything

372
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:29,930
I'm probably lying or whatever but if

373
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:31,910
you played it backwards you'd hear what

374
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:35,380
I'm actually honestly intending that

375
00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:37,610
would be that would require some

376
00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:39,950
incredible brainpower wouldn't it just

377
00:16:45,250 --> 00:16:42,040
wouldn't it just and that's of course a

378
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:45,260
classic example of audio pareidolia and

379
00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:46,970
there's a lot of examples of that in

380
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:49,220
that episode a lot of really fun little

381
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:51,020
audio clips that make that one a lot of

382
00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:52,790
fun so I think that's why that one's a

383
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:55,550
perennial fan favorite folks this is

384
00:17:00,040 --> 00:16:57,170
what you can do if you're stuck at home

385
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:00,050
now like a lot of us are even the

386
00:17:04,689 --> 00:17:01,810
skeptics own cats and ire

387
00:17:06,340 --> 00:17:04,699
held up here in the office in this

388
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:06,350
studio you can listen to the whole back

389
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:08,569
catalogue of skip toyed Brian where do

390
00:17:15,689 --> 00:17:11,209
they go just come to skeptoid dot-com

391
00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:15,699
and search for whatever conceivable

392
00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:17,929
conspiracy theory urban legend

393
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:20,270
paranormal claim ghost story

394
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:22,250
whatever it is alternative medicine

395
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:26,000
scheme they're all in there and I hope

396
00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:28,250
that they help you pass the time if you

397
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:30,380
like so many of us are stuck at home

398
00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:32,270
thank you very much Brian Dunning for

399
00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:35,140
doing this again it's it's a wonderful

400
00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:36,920
resource for

401
00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:38,780
me personally as I've said many times

402
00:17:44,050 --> 00:17:41,240
before if I'm ever asked to comment

403
00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:44,060
about some paranormal spooky things my

404
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:46,520
first port of call it's a ways to go to

405
00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:48,890
skeptoid to see what Brian Dunning has

406
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:52,040
had to say on the issue Brian stay well

407
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:53,090
hi

408
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:55,490
sending my regards to you and your whole

409
00:17:59,890 --> 00:17:57,650
family up there and Bend it's not a bad

410
00:18:01,990 --> 00:17:59,900
place to be stuck I guess no it's okay

411
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:02,000
except we can't go to the pubs so that's

412
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:06,290
half the benefit of being here oh I was

413
00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:07,850
gonna come visit but I've just changed

414
00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:12,350
my mind so Brian it's great that you've

415
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:14,060
made all those episodes available for

416
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:16,250
everybody but for now Brian Dunning

417
00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:17,840
thank you very much thank you for

418
00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:19,950
helping us get the word out

419
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:25,300
[Music]

420
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:28,250
hey max fun listeners have you been

421
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:29,930
listening to Mac's fun for a while and

422
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:31,610
you've just been wondering where's the

423
00:18:35,530 --> 00:18:33,770
new Flat Earth podcast to keep hearing

424
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:35,540
about well here it is we give you all

425
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:38,720
the facts on NASA's lies and how we know

426
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:43,310
that the earth is actually flat this is

427
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:46,220
oh no Ross and Carrie and we joined

428
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:48,170
fringe religious groups we undergo

429
00:18:51,910 --> 00:18:50,270
alternative medical treatments and we

430
00:18:53,980 --> 00:18:51,920
hang out with people like 9/11 truthers

431
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:53,990
flat earthers we find out why do people

432
00:18:57,940 --> 00:18:56,330
believe strange things we join them and

433
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:57,950
we tell you all about it we have a lot

434
00:19:01,830 --> 00:18:59,840
of fun we make a lot of friends yeah we

435
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:01,840
do we joined the Mormons we joined the

436
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:04,400
Scientologists we got acupuncture we got

437
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:06,650
fire cups we got ear candled we've done

438
00:19:10,030 --> 00:19:08,210
it all and we're gonna keep doing it all

439
00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:10,040
why don't you check out oh no Ross and

440
00:19:29,140 --> 00:19:26,610
[Music]

441
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:29,150
now here's an update from our friends at

442
00:19:33,910 --> 00:19:32,050
the good thinking Society in the UK

443
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:33,920
March 2020

444
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:36,640
good thinking 'z judicial review

445
00:19:42,430 --> 00:19:39,230
concluded with strict conditions placed

446
00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:42,440
on the Society of homeopathy as many of

447
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:43,640
our supporters will know the

448
00:19:48,580 --> 00:19:45,440
Professional Standards Authority has

449
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:48,590
imposed strict conditions on the Society

450
00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:50,810
of homeopathy as part of their most

451
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:52,700
recent annual accreditation of the

452
00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:54,770
homeopathic membership organisation as

453
00:19:59,560 --> 00:19:58,190
an accredited voluntary register these

454
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,570
conditions include forbidding

455
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:01,520
registrants of the Society of Home

456
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:04,880
Affairs from practicing cease therapy

457
00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:09,440
that c/e ASE therapy an ineffective

458
00:20:15,610 --> 00:20:13,040
autism cure aimed at children which is

459
00:20:18,430 --> 00:20:15,620
based on anti vaccination misinformation

460
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:18,440
and from making any claims regarding

461
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:20,690
vaccinations we at the good thinking

462
00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:22,790
society welcomed these conditions having

463
00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:24,350
spent the last few years raising

464
00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:27,190
concerns over the Society of homeopaths

465
00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:30,020
unwillingness or inability to prevent

466
00:20:36,610 --> 00:20:32,030
their registrants from claiming to cure

467
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:36,620
autism in June 2019 we filed a judicial

468
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:40,010
review challenging the psays 2019

469
00:20:42,820 --> 00:20:42,140
re-accreditation of the Society of

470
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:42,830
homeopaths

471
00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:45,650
given that the PSA had acknowledged that

472
00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:48,470
cease therapy was potentially harmful

473
00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:52,160
and that it conflicted with NHS advice

474
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:54,020
regarding vaccinations against

475
00:21:00,130 --> 00:20:55,970
potentially life-threatening conditions

476
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:00,140
in their 2019 re-accreditation the PSA

477
00:21:05,740 --> 00:21:03,290
did not require or even recommend that

478
00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:05,750
the Society of homeopaths prevent their

479
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:08,780
members from offering cease therapy we

480
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:11,090
challenge the decision because the

481
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:14,210
measures recommended by the PSA in 2019

482
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:17,600
did not come close to mitigating the

483
00:21:22,510 --> 00:21:19,850
potential harms associated with cease

484
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:22,520
therapy despite there being evidence

485
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:24,170
that the society of homeopathy

486
00:21:29,410 --> 00:21:26,630
registrants continued to practice ceased

487
00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:29,420
therapy we also argued that the PS

488
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:31,820
had failed to ask the Society of

489
00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:34,310
homeopaths how many of its registrants

490
00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:37,190
practiced ceased therapy and failed to

491
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:39,950
verify information provided to them some

492
00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:42,550
of which we had found to be inaccurate

493
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:44,900
before coming to their decision

494
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:47,750
further we felt that the PSA had not

495
00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:50,450
properly taken account of the potential

496
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:52,760
equality implications of its decision

497
00:21:58,450 --> 00:21:55,610
given that ceased therapy is aimed at

498
00:22:00,850 --> 00:21:58,460
autistic people and autistic children in

499
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:00,860
particular with that in mind we are very

500
00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:03,110
pleased to see that strict conditions

501
00:22:07,180 --> 00:22:04,820
have now been placed on the Society of

502
00:22:10,050 --> 00:22:07,190
homeopaths binding them to take action

503
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:10,060
to prevent their registrants from making

504
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:13,280
autism cure claims or from spreading

505
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:15,890
anti vaccination misinformation we are

506
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:18,680
encouraged to see that the PSA have come

507
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:21,050
to accept that nothing short of an

508
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:23,450
outright ban on C's therapy is

509
00:22:28,150 --> 00:22:25,730
sufficient to protect the public and

510
00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:28,160
they also took into account the Equality

511
00:22:32,890 --> 00:22:30,800
implications of accrediting the Society

512
00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:32,900
of homeopaths whilst its members

513
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:35,390
practice ceased therapy we are therefore

514
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:37,610
happy to withdraw our legal challenge to

515
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:42,170
the 2019 decision however while putting

516
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:44,330
in place a ban on C's therapy is

517
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:46,970
obviously a great step forward any

518
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:49,430
prohibition is meaningless unless it is

519
00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:52,640
adhered to and disciplinary action is

520
00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:54,500
taken by the Society of homeopaths

521
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,110
against those registrants who ignore it

522
00:23:02,080 --> 00:22:59,600
we will therefore be paying close

523
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:02,090
attention over the coming year to ensure

524
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,010
that registrants of the Society of

525
00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:06,320
homeopaths do not continue to offer

526
00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:09,350
cease therapy or to act in breach of any

527
00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:11,750
of the other conditions imposed upon the

528
00:23:17,290 --> 00:23:14,630
society by the PSA if we do find

529
00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:17,300
registrants acting in bridge we will

530
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:19,340
raise our concerns with the Society of

531
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:22,790
homeopaths and the PSA as necessary as

532
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,650
we did prior to the 2019

533
00:23:29,470 --> 00:23:27,440
re-accreditation we trust that this time

534
00:23:32,170 --> 00:23:29,480
our concerns will be taken seriously and

535
00:23:35,950 --> 00:23:32,180
that the need for further legal action

536
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:35,960
can be avoided in the future we'd like

537
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:37,490
to offer our thanks to everyone who

538
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:39,730
supported us on this project which

539
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:42,530
started over three years ago

540
00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:45,110
and to Professor Steve powers of the NHS

541
00:23:49,810 --> 00:23:47,480
and Carol pavía of the National Autistic

542
00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:49,820
Society for the statements they

543
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:52,220
submitted in support of our claim we

544
00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:53,840
would also like to give special thanks

545
00:23:58,900 --> 00:23:55,460
to Salima

546
00:24:01,240 --> 00:23:58,910
Mohini and bind men's LLP and Jason pop

547
00:24:03,790 --> 00:24:01,250
joy and Holly Higgins at Blackstone

548
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:03,800
chambers for their invaluable legal

549
00:24:09,550 --> 00:24:06,710
counsel we'd also like to thank crowd

550
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:09,560
justice for coordinating our fundraising

551
00:24:17,530 --> 00:24:13,490
activities and to the 289 people who

552
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:17,540
donated money back to our cause we will

553
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,610
be writing to them next week to explain

554
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:21,760
the impact that their donation has made

555
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:24,410
meanwhile we invite our supporters to

556
00:24:29,860 --> 00:24:27,290
let us know if they find any instances

557
00:24:33,010 --> 00:24:29,870
of the Society of homeopathy registrants

558
00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:33,020
offering cease therapy offering dietary

559
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:35,000
supplements sharing anti vaccination

560
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:37,730
misinformation or claiming to be able to

561
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:40,850
cure any named conditions which we will

562
00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:43,850
then be able to pass on the Society of

563
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:45,860
homeopaths has three months to get its

564
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:48,110
house in order to satisfy the PSA that

565
00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:50,510
it has complied with the conditions

566
00:24:55,870 --> 00:24:52,270
relating to cease therapy and

567
00:24:57,550 --> 00:24:55,880
vaccination the PSA will then make an

568
00:24:59,980 --> 00:24:57,560
assessment as to whether the conditions

569
00:25:03,240 --> 00:24:59,990
have been met and only if they have been

570
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:03,250
met will the re-accreditation be granted

571
00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:06,130
evidence of dangerous misinformation or

572
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:08,660
inappropriate claims made by the Society

573
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:11,600
of homeopathy registrants after 13 May

574
00:25:17,490 --> 00:25:14,510
2020 will show that the conditions have

575
00:25:20,150 --> 00:25:17,500
not been met which ought to trigger

576
00:25:23,950 --> 00:25:20,160
appropriate action by the PSA

577
00:25:26,810 --> 00:25:23,960
[Music]

578
00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:26,820
and you can find that information for

579
00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:28,800
yourself by visiting good thinking at

580
00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:30,900
good thinking society org

581
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:33,180
a link in this week's show notes but the

582
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:35,370
ongoing battle for sanity over

583
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:40,320
homeopathy is well at this time in this

584
00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:43,530
international time of crisis it's just

585
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:45,240
about as important as anything else I

586
00:25:53,650 --> 00:25:48,690
guess because of the fear that people

587
00:25:55,790 --> 00:25:53,660
will be given very bad advice

588
00:26:00,770 --> 00:25:55,800
regarding their health at the moment

589
00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:00,780
case in point is the serial offenders of

590
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:03,990
homeopathy plus here in Australia who

591
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:07,500
are now and not surprisingly now putting

592
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:08,910
it out there that there could possibly

593
00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:13,200
be a homeopathic treatment and

594
00:26:19,060 --> 00:26:16,740
prevention for kovat nineteen and this

595
00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:19,070
is directly from one of their

596
00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:22,140
newsletters in their page this is what

597
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:26,160
it says late Sunday night Sunday 15th of

598
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:29,220
March 2020 I was sent an email with a

599
00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:31,650
link to a document which contained

600
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:34,040
treatment reports and a remedy

601
00:26:41,150 --> 00:26:37,020
recommendation for covert 19 the disease

602
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:41,160
caused by the new corona virus SARS CoV

603
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:44,310
- the following is a screen capture of

604
00:26:52,670 --> 00:26:48,960
that email and it's something called the

605
00:26:56,030 --> 00:26:52,680
other song website whatever that is dr.

606
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,040
Sankar n after his work in collaboration

607
00:27:00,910 --> 00:26:58,080
with a doctor in Iran on novel

608
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:00,920
coronavirus has suggested the following

609
00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:05,700
preventive chem 401 mil for pills twice

610
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:07,920
daily two days keep under the tongue

611
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:10,410
until melt nothing but water three

612
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:12,960
minutes before and after with symptoms

613
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:16,530
of infection cam 401 mil eight pills in

614
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:20,640
100 milliliters of water 1 tablespoon 6

615
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:25,290
hourly for days until symptoms largely

616
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:28,890
abate nothing but water 30 minutes

617
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:32,250
before and after me and usually he goes

618
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:34,110
on to say last night I was able to click

619
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:35,290
on the link

620
00:27:40,650 --> 00:27:37,690
in the above email and read the document

621
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:40,660
in full not so this morning on clicking

622
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:41,650
to read it again

623
00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:43,900
this is what I was shown in the next

624
00:27:48,330 --> 00:27:46,270
screen capture is Google Drive sorry the

625
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:48,340
file you have requested does not exist a

626
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:51,010
search around the internet also failed

627
00:27:57,030 --> 00:27:52,570
to find any trace of this particular

628
00:28:00,930 --> 00:27:57,040
document this was unusual it was as if

629
00:28:03,540 --> 00:28:00,940
it had been fully scrubbed from the

630
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:03,550
internet during the hours I and others

631
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:06,250
slept for this reason you may wish to

632
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:08,020
capture this article and share it with

633
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:12,240
others in case it too quickly disappears

634
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:19,330
hello conspiracy mindset and it's

635
00:28:23,310 --> 00:28:21,370
interesting I mean to their way of

636
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:23,320
thinking anything like this simply

637
00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:24,940
validates they don't need validation

638
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:26,800
they know what they think is right

639
00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:30,010
this simply validates the conspiratorial

640
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:32,500
mindset they have it goes on the

641
00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:34,090
following is what I remember reading the

642
00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:37,620
document case reports with symptoms were

643
00:28:43,290 --> 00:28:40,660
collected by an Iranian doctor working

644
00:28:45,930 --> 00:28:43,300
with the diagnose Kovac 19 patient in

645
00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:45,940
Iran those case reports were sent to an

646
00:28:50,910 --> 00:28:48,190
Indian homeopathic doctor al goodness

647
00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:50,920
who based on these symptoms provided

648
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:54,190
suggested a homeopathic remedy oh dear

649
00:28:59,360 --> 00:28:56,110
if my memory serves me correctly about

650
00:29:02,040 --> 00:28:59,370
50 cases correction 40 were involved

651
00:29:03,930 --> 00:29:02,050
information from approximately 8 of the

652
00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:03,940
cases their symptoms and treatment

653
00:29:09,660 --> 00:29:06,940
responses were all provided in detail in

654
00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:09,670
the document those given the remedy

655
00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:10,990
recovered much more quickly than

656
00:29:16,170 --> 00:29:14,200
expected from their exhaustion and

657
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:16,180
collapse some were able to return to

658
00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:18,910
work within a week and there is much

659
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:22,030
more to this page it simply goes on and

660
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:25,510
on but no surprises no surprises at all

661
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:27,160
homeopathy plus with the same

662
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:28,870
organization taken to court about four

663
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:32,230
or five years back for advocating their

664
00:29:38,430 --> 00:29:34,930
magic sugar water be used instead of

665
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:38,440
vaccine for whooping cough so that they

666
00:29:44,670 --> 00:29:41,350
would be spouting homeopathic cures or

667
00:29:46,590 --> 00:29:44,680
prevention for covert 19 is just par for

668
00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:46,600
the courses of course they would do it

669
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:48,820
if you thought that you

670
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,679
or system of treatment worked for

671
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,600
everything and I do mean everything of

672
00:30:00,690 --> 00:29:58,240
course it would work for this current

673
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:00,700
health crisis and this will lead me to

674
00:30:08,999 --> 00:30:04,210
the last of the items in this little

675
00:30:11,789 --> 00:30:09,009
segment about bogus or fake cures

676
00:30:13,879 --> 00:30:11,799
remedies treatments for coronavirus

677
00:30:16,919 --> 00:30:13,889
going around the world at the moment

678
00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:16,929
this is to do something called applied

679
00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:20,440
kinesiology now this is a cracked

680
00:30:28,049 --> 00:30:24,600
modality of diagnosis this is to do with

681
00:30:30,810 --> 00:30:28,059
muscle testing muscle memory the body's

682
00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:30,820
natural responses messages from the

683
00:30:36,269 --> 00:30:32,980
universe energetic healing this sort of

684
00:30:38,879 --> 00:30:36,279
stuff and until now as I posted on

685
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:38,889
Facebook the society really apart from

686
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,830
the skeptics working away sort of turn a

687
00:30:45,450 --> 00:30:43,840
blind eye to all this you know all those

688
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:45,460
alternative medicine people doing what

689
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:49,980
they do this comes from a an applied

690
00:30:57,450 --> 00:30:54,490
kinesiologist by the name of Renny

691
00:31:01,769 --> 00:30:57,460
Zillah who posted on Facebook a couple

692
00:31:05,999 --> 00:31:01,779
of days ago as I'm recording so over the

693
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:06,009
last weekend coronavirus checkups if

694
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:09,519
you're worried or suspect you're in

695
00:31:15,779 --> 00:31:12,580
danger of catching the virus please

696
00:31:19,950 --> 00:31:15,789
phone me monday to thursday 9 a.m. to 3

697
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:19,960
p.m. I'll check energetically your

698
00:31:26,129 --> 00:31:22,750
respiratory system in-depth beliefs

699
00:31:28,879 --> 00:31:26,139
around catching the virus and sabotages

700
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:28,889
in relation to how it may affect you

701
00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:33,250
whenever that means $1 per minute this

702
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:36,279
is less than my normal $2 50 a minute

703
00:31:42,509 --> 00:31:39,129
and this next bit is real this is really

704
00:31:44,940 --> 00:31:42,519
written the irony is off the scale we

705
00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:44,950
need to stop the unnecessary worry and

706
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:50,230
deal with what is real some people might

707
00:31:56,129 --> 00:31:53,529
be carriers of the virus but many of you

708
00:31:59,700 --> 00:31:56,139
will not be or if you'd like to save

709
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:59,710
your money learn how to do kinesiology

710
00:32:05,369 --> 00:32:02,470
yourself it's very easy here's a

711
00:32:07,379 --> 00:32:05,379
that can help and the link will take you

712
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:07,389
to a video which I'll explain in a

713
00:32:16,369 --> 00:32:13,840
moment and that practice is under the

714
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,379
banner of holistic health practitioner

715
00:32:20,999 --> 00:32:19,360
now the video in question has her

716
00:32:25,379 --> 00:32:21,009
sitting on a couch in a lovely setting

717
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:25,389
and explaining how you can get messages

718
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:28,450
you can diagnose people you can by

719
00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:30,970
basically putting your thumb and

720
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:34,360
forefinger and second finger together to

721
00:32:41,180 --> 00:32:37,090
make a little circle placing another

722
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:41,190
finger or two inside that and quickly

723
00:32:49,289 --> 00:32:44,740
moving them out to break the seal now if

724
00:32:52,139 --> 00:32:49,299
you can break the seal that means yes to

725
00:32:54,869 --> 00:32:52,149
your question if you can't and your

726
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:54,879
fingers are clasped but kind if you

727
00:33:02,369 --> 00:32:58,720
can't break the seal that means no I am

728
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:02,379
NOT making this up so presumably people

729
00:33:10,049 --> 00:33:05,710
will be calling her and saying can you

730
00:33:12,419 --> 00:33:10,059
tell me if I've got this coronavirus she

731
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:12,429
may or may not she probably does she's

732
00:33:19,049 --> 00:33:14,820
probably a true believer does this

733
00:33:23,159 --> 00:33:19,059
finger test and diagnoses the person on

734
00:33:24,749 --> 00:33:23,169
the other end of the phone maybe and

735
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:24,759
we've got the screen captures and this

736
00:33:31,289 --> 00:33:28,000
has been repaired many times now this

737
00:33:33,149 --> 00:33:31,299
screen cap may be when all is done and

738
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:33,159
dusted and the world is getting back to

739
00:33:41,999 --> 00:33:35,610
its feet people like this can be

740
00:33:44,159 --> 00:33:42,009
prosecuted for offering fake virus

741
00:33:45,659 --> 00:33:44,169
checkups I think we're going to be

742
00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:45,669
hearing more about this in the coming

743
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:49,720
weeks more bogus cures and practices and

744
00:33:54,990 --> 00:33:52,210
beliefs and then we'll have the

745
00:33:56,899 --> 00:33:55,000
avalanche of conspiracy theories to deal

746
00:34:00,640 --> 00:33:56,909
with

747
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:00,650
relevant links in this week's show notes

748
00:34:17,469 --> 00:34:15,219
the reason was the interview show from

749
00:34:18,700 --> 00:34:17,479
the Merseyside skeptic society where

750
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,710
each month I speak to someone about

751
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:20,960
their fringe beliefs over the earth I've

752
00:34:25,359 --> 00:34:23,359
spoken to psychics UFO believers moon

753
00:34:27,219 --> 00:34:25,369
landing and ayahs flat earthers Hollow

754
00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:27,229
Earth as an all manner of unusual

755
00:34:30,849 --> 00:34:29,089
conspiracy theorists but I've also

756
00:34:32,919 --> 00:34:30,859
talked to aids denialists white

757
00:34:34,749 --> 00:34:32,929
supremacists gay conversion therapy

758
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:34,759
I even interviewed Jim Humble the

759
00:34:38,319 --> 00:34:36,649
inventor of miracle mineral supplement a

760
00:34:39,879 --> 00:34:38,329
form of industrial police that he and

761
00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:39,889
his followers used to treat cancer and

762
00:34:44,829 --> 00:34:42,710
HIV this isn't a debate show my aim

763
00:34:47,139 --> 00:34:44,839
isn't to win an argument but when we

764
00:34:49,269 --> 00:34:47,149
listen to how people promote and justify

765
00:34:51,309 --> 00:34:49,279
the ideas that we disagree with even the

766
00:34:52,989 --> 00:34:51,319
dangerous ones I think you become much

767
00:34:54,819 --> 00:34:52,999
more effective at countering those ideas

768
00:34:56,919 --> 00:34:54,829
if that sounds like something you be

769
00:34:58,809 --> 00:34:56,929
interested in look for be reasonable on

770
00:34:59,770 --> 00:34:58,819
Apple podcasts and everywhere else that

771
00:35:09,569 --> 00:34:59,780
podcaster

772
00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:09,579
[Music]

773
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:15,000
and now a reading from the book of Tim

774
00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:16,990
[Music]

775
00:35:28,990 --> 00:35:26,900
with Tim Mendham hi my name is Tim

776
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:29,000
Minton I'm the executive officer of a

777
00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:31,490
strain skeptics Inc and I'm the editor

778
00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:34,550
of our magazine the skeptic and this

779
00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:36,200
time I'm reading part one of a

780
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:38,540
three-part series on one of our major

781
00:35:43,780 --> 00:35:41,569
challenge tests that we undertook a few

782
00:35:47,050 --> 00:35:43,790
years ago to test the abilities of

783
00:35:49,410 --> 00:35:47,060
dowsers that's diviners people who use

784
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:49,420
rods or whatever to find water

785
00:35:58,089 --> 00:35:52,690
disappeared in the skeptic magazine June

786
00:36:01,390 --> 00:35:58,099
2013 which is volume 33 number 2 part 1

787
00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:01,400
is covering the scene and this was

788
00:36:09,550 --> 00:36:03,560
written by Ian Bryce app challenge

789
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:09,560
coordinator the Sun beat down

790
00:36:15,309 --> 00:36:12,530
relentlessly on a scorching 33 degree

791
00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:15,319
day in the background we could see wood

792
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:17,150
chopping competitors sweating it out in

793
00:36:21,180 --> 00:36:19,520
their Navy singlets and riders jumping

794
00:36:23,890 --> 00:36:21,190
their horses around an obstacle course

795
00:36:26,109 --> 00:36:23,900
the crowds of thousands enjoyed the many

796
00:36:29,230 --> 00:36:26,119
spectacles from polished hot rods and

797
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:29,240
spluttering antique engines to iron man

798
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:31,730
or woman events involving wheelbarrows

799
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:34,700
and sandstone blocks the kids enjoyed

800
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:37,010
gripping ice creams at jumping castle

801
00:36:42,849 --> 00:36:38,240
and a waterslide

802
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:42,859
it was the mighty meter muster this

803
00:36:46,359 --> 00:36:44,210
seemed an unlikely setting for a

804
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:46,369
challenge for the skeptics $100,000

805
00:36:51,730 --> 00:36:48,890
price for a demonstration of any event

806
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:51,740
unknown to science meter meter is a

807
00:36:56,530 --> 00:36:54,310
small town in northeastern Victoria

808
00:36:58,510 --> 00:36:56,540
situations at the foothills of the snowy

809
00:37:00,730 --> 00:36:58,520
mountains on the junction of the meter

810
00:37:03,339 --> 00:37:00,740
meter River and snowy Creek

811
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:03,349
it is about 80 kilometres southeast of

812
00:37:08,589 --> 00:37:06,200
albey Wodonga and each year in March the

813
00:37:10,780 --> 00:37:08,599
muster attracts country folk from all

814
00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:10,790
over bringing a good proportion of water

815
00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:13,400
diviners water drillers their families

816
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:16,190
and believers and so it was that the

817
00:37:19,870 --> 00:37:17,810
borderline skeptics

818
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:19,880
which was a group that was set up in

819
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:22,130
that area in conjunction with the

820
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:24,710
Victorian skeptics organized their third

821
00:37:31,630 --> 00:37:27,410
dowsing challenge the previous ones

822
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:31,640
being held in 2001 and 2002 so this was

823
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,490
a few years after those ones one plan

824
00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:36,560
for 2003 didn't eventuate because of

825
00:37:41,170 --> 00:37:38,630
bushfires something of course which the

826
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,180
area is rather prone to which also meant

827
00:37:45,250 --> 00:37:42,800
the cancellation of the whole muster

828
00:37:48,850 --> 00:37:45,260
itself Australian skeptics have held

829
00:37:50,890 --> 00:37:48,860
other divining tests one in 1980 at our

830
00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:50,900
patron dick Smith's initiative which was

831
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:53,270
the progenitor of the sceptics and one

832
00:38:00,760 --> 00:37:56,690
in 1989 which Ambrose organized and your

833
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:00,770
speaker now took apart in the rules said

834
00:38:04,750 --> 00:38:02,410
the electronic devices were not allowed

835
00:38:07,420 --> 00:38:04,760
and Ian kept an eye out for any

836
00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:07,430
anomalies there was no sign of cheating

837
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:10,460
or disputes the targets for diviners

838
00:38:15,610 --> 00:38:12,830
consisted of 20 bottles containing

839
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:15,620
either river water or sand concealed in

840
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:18,710
calico bags and place randomly at pre

841
00:38:25,150 --> 00:38:22,310
marked location around a tennis court as

842
00:38:27,820 --> 00:38:25,160
a control each diviner first calibrated

843
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:27,830
his/her equipment on visible bottles of

844
00:38:33,250 --> 00:38:30,170
each type and then on concealed but

845
00:38:34,810 --> 00:38:33,260
known samples all final participants

846
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:34,820
have their divining rods or whatever

847
00:38:39,940 --> 00:38:37,130
tools they used responded in these cases

848
00:38:42,460 --> 00:38:39,950
and they divided the twenty unknown

849
00:38:45,010 --> 00:38:42,470
samples with an escort recording their

850
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:45,020
pronouncements about forty people took

851
00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:46,670
the challenge around half of whom were

852
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:47,750
professionals calling themselves

853
00:38:52,450 --> 00:38:50,390
diviners or dueling bores as a business

854
00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:52,460
and the others were casual visitors

855
00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:54,830
after about an hour we stopped the tests

856
00:38:58,930 --> 00:38:57,230
and revealed the bottles diviners were

857
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,940
able to revisit the site and many of

858
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:00,560
them carefully redesigned bottles on

859
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:03,650
which they had failed in the 1999 test

860
00:39:07,210 --> 00:39:05,330
we uncovered the bottles in real time

861
00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:07,220
while the diviner was demonstrating a

862
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:09,350
positive response and it was revealing

863
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:11,810
to see the rod once dipping solidly

864
00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:14,960
start to hesitate and then waver to

865
00:39:18,970 --> 00:39:17,180
nothing this showed conclusively that

866
00:39:21,070 --> 00:39:18,980
the rods respond to the diviners

867
00:39:24,370 --> 00:39:21,080
expectations rather than the actual

868
00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:24,380
water each diviners score was tallied

869
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:27,140
and Ian asked many how they went and

870
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:28,510
perhaps why they failed

871
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:30,590
finally the bottles were randomised

872
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:31,520
again

873
00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:34,250
and the next round commence the dowsers

874
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:35,870
were an interesting crew most were from

875
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:37,370
northern Victoria or southern New South

876
00:39:43,570 --> 00:39:41,270
Wales one said he is from the West asked

877
00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:43,580
did he mean Perth no near Wodonga Welsh

878
00:39:47,860 --> 00:39:45,830
a few kilometres away well it's all

879
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,870
relative one from Bendigo had

880
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:49,520
participated in three thousand and one

881
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:51,890
tested Mitter a husband-and-wife team

882
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:54,620
from a drilling company competed the

883
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:56,390
husband hoped to do well but did average

884
00:40:00,640 --> 00:39:58,160
the wife just hoped to beat her husband

885
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:00,650
which she achieved a family with a son

886
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:02,690
and a daughter also competed their

887
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:04,490
business clearly relied on divining and

888
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:06,050
they regarded this as an important test

889
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:10,460
the daughter scored 13 15 and 13 above

890
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:11,930
average but unfortunately within the

891
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:14,870
range of chance alone one entrant let

892
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:16,880
his two-year-old son perched on his

893
00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:19,670
shoulders pick the samples asked water

894
00:40:24,730 --> 00:40:23,390
or sand his first 17 were all water by

895
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:24,740
which time he wondered if perhaps the

896
00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:26,930
child was thirsty or had need of a

897
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:29,630
bathroom each sceptic also had a go

898
00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:32,450
Ian's folk stick did not respond at all

899
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:35,420
on its own so at each sample Ian had to

900
00:40:38,410 --> 00:40:37,910
make a conscious decision and by us it

901
00:40:41,730 --> 00:40:38,420
accordingly

902
00:40:44,770 --> 00:40:41,740
he scored 11 that's out of 20 by the way

903
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:44,780
as for implements the series diviners

904
00:40:50,830 --> 00:40:46,970
brought their own mainly bent rods or

905
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:50,840
wires of steel aluminium or brass one

906
00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:52,670
had an intricate pattern fastened to his

907
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:55,040
rod like an antenna another preferred

908
00:40:59,800 --> 00:40:57,170
pendulums including a cricket ball on a

909
00:41:02,830 --> 00:40:59,810
string we provided a range of wires and

910
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:02,840
forked branches for casuals the physics

911
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:05,090
of dowsing is interesting diviners

912
00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:07,370
typically hold a bent wire in neutral

913
00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:09,590
equilibrium with a very low friction

914
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:12,980
grip or even in a loose tube so that any

915
00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:14,930
tiny disturbance will turn it

916
00:41:19,770 --> 00:41:17,420
even so movements of their hands are

917
00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:19,780
often visible before the rod swings

918
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:23,030
supporting the ideomotor reaction theory

919
00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:25,970
a pendulum is in the same category a

920
00:41:31,330 --> 00:41:28,580
fork stick is held under stress so that

921
00:41:33,930 --> 00:41:31,340
it is in unstable equilibrium and even

922
00:41:36,940 --> 00:41:33,940
random or chaotic stimuli will affect it

923
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:36,950
when results were revealed the histogram

924
00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:39,380
of 79 runs showed an approximate

925
00:41:44,350 --> 00:41:41,740
bell-shaped curve as expected by chance

926
00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:44,360
the average score was nine point eight

927
00:41:47,950 --> 00:41:44,990
five

928
00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:47,960
20 very close to the 10 expected by

929
00:41:53,770 --> 00:41:51,590
chance alone none reached the 18 set as

930
00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:53,780
a potential success which would give the

931
00:41:59,080 --> 00:41:55,700
right to a more careful test at a later

932
00:42:01,120 --> 00:41:59,090
date for the prize money he made a point

933
00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:01,130
of asking how they expected to fear at

934
00:42:06,430 --> 00:42:03,830
various stages most entrants at the

935
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:06,440
start expected to do well and after

936
00:42:12,460 --> 00:42:09,200
their run were equally confident the AG

937
00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:12,470
spot on when the results were revealed

938
00:42:16,930 --> 00:42:14,060
they were clearly disappointed and

939
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:16,940
excuses often appeared most opted for a

940
00:42:21,100 --> 00:42:18,890
second or third try where possible in

941
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:21,110
the hope of doing better most however

942
00:42:26,380 --> 00:42:24,410
felt it was a reasonably fair test in

943
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:26,390
summary it was a very successful event

944
00:42:31,210 --> 00:42:28,610
most diviners were complimentary and

945
00:42:33,070 --> 00:42:31,220
enjoyed the friendly atmosphere excuses

946
00:42:34,570 --> 00:42:33,080
aside they all accepted the results

947
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:34,580
showing their performance was no better

948
00:42:40,180 --> 00:42:37,610
than chance many skeptics and locals

949
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:40,190
contributed to the success but special

950
00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:41,930
thanks are due to the borderline

951
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,270
skeptics and that organisation

952
00:42:47,710 --> 00:42:46,400
unfortunately doesn't exist anymore but

953
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:47,720
that's the nature of skeptical groups

954
00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:50,930
they come and go so that's the first

955
00:42:59,590 --> 00:42:54,020
part of divining admit er covering the

956
00:43:03,370 --> 00:42:59,600
scene as from the skeptic June 2013 vol

957
00:43:05,859 --> 00:43:03,380
33 number 2 and next week we'll be

958
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:05,869
looking at part two of this divining

959
00:43:10,030 --> 00:43:07,450
admit er looking at the tests themselves

960
00:43:14,530 --> 00:43:10,040
and how they were undertaken and how

961
00:43:17,380 --> 00:43:14,540
they went and all issues are the skeptic

962
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:17,390
apart for the last four can be

963
00:43:24,730 --> 00:43:21,290
downloaded from our website wwlp.com but

964
00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:24,740
au for free just go to the tag magazine

965
00:43:30,220 --> 00:43:28,100
and scroll down and you'll see 39 years

966
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:30,230
worth of magazines easily have a look at

967
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:31,500
at no charge

968
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:47,260
hey fellow skeptics in Medford here with

969
00:43:51,339 --> 00:43:49,400
Celeste reward your friendly host of

970
00:43:53,289 --> 00:43:51,349
starring the strange a podcast that

971
00:43:55,660 --> 00:43:53,299
looks at topics ranging from Legends

972
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:55,670
panics and cryptids debating myths

973
00:43:59,980 --> 00:43:57,920
psychology and folklore breaking things

974
00:44:02,049 --> 00:43:59,990
down and picking things apart as we

975
00:44:04,359 --> 00:44:02,059
skeptics do we bring a few different

976
00:44:06,849 --> 00:44:04,369
perspectives on things pleasure for

977
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:06,859
example is a witty cartoonist and Ben is

978
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:07,970
a brilliant writer and longtime

979
00:44:12,609 --> 00:44:10,190
skeptical investigator we don't always

980
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:12,619
agree well we have fun trying and we

981
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:14,690
learn new things join us for new topics

982
00:44:19,809 --> 00:44:17,569
every week or two or browse our backlog

983
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:19,819
of evergreen episodes available on

984
00:44:24,849 --> 00:44:22,400
iTunes and all your podcasts feeding

985
00:44:30,170 --> 00:44:24,859
troughs swearing the strange take care

986
00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:35,949
[Music]

987
00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:41,150
here's Maynard spooky action at the

988
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:46,420
all the way out here in the foyer and

989
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:47,870
somebody I've been bumping into a few

990
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:51,050
times this weekend is Catherine and

991
00:44:53,890 --> 00:44:53,270
you've got a bit of a story about oh

992
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:53,900
look

993
00:44:59,350 --> 00:44:58,010
bit thinking what's mum up to now hope

994
00:45:05,980 --> 00:44:59,360
you know yeah has your mum been

995
00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:05,990
embarrassing you this weekend it's good

996
00:45:08,740 --> 00:45:06,680
to be polite

997
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:08,750
this is Clara my Clara good to meet you

998
00:45:13,330 --> 00:45:11,570
before I had kids I was going to a

999
00:45:14,830 --> 00:45:13,340
chiropractor and doing all that all that

1000
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:14,840
stuff and what was that for general

1001
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:16,010
health or something with your back all

1002
00:45:18,580 --> 00:45:16,250
right

1003
00:45:20,380 --> 00:45:18,590
no back yes oh I've had a lot of back

1004
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:20,390
problems and the chiropractor actually

1005
00:45:24,070 --> 00:45:22,730
helped was it he mobilized the joint

1006
00:45:25,870 --> 00:45:24,080
submit and that's kind of what I needed

1007
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:25,880
at the time later on I had a spinal

1008
00:45:31,110 --> 00:45:27,410
fusion and all that kind of stuff so

1009
00:45:33,970 --> 00:45:31,120
yeah he had a naturopath there he had

1010
00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:33,980
you did all that kind of stuff and one

1011
00:45:40,810 --> 00:45:37,270
day he literally got on his knees and

1012
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:40,820
begged me to not vaccinate my future

1013
00:45:44,770 --> 00:45:42,560
children because I hadn't had children

1014
00:45:47,470 --> 00:45:44,780
that point and he was absolutely adamant

1015
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:47,480
do not vaccinate your children and he

1016
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:49,850
had he showed me the graph where we if

1017
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,310
you take it out of context it looks like

1018
00:45:57,340 --> 00:45:54,880
other reasons or the reasons for

1019
00:45:59,530 --> 00:45:57,350
incidents of diseases coming down yeah

1020
00:46:01,990 --> 00:45:59,540
yeah that it's sanitation and everything

1021
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:02,000
it's one that starts in not in 40 or

1022
00:46:07,330 --> 00:46:05,630
something that's very misleading but

1023
00:46:09,580 --> 00:46:07,340
that was right outside his area of

1024
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:09,590
expertise and it's only now when I look

1025
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,170
back I think wow that was that was

1026
00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:14,240
pretty full on his and and you and you

1027
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:15,560
weren't planning to have kids at that

1028
00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:16,910
time or anything so he was just doing

1029
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:18,230
that to patients that may potentially

1030
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:20,690
one day have kids yeah yeah absolutely

1031
00:46:26,290 --> 00:46:23,450
yeah I know and you're pretty healthy

1032
00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:26,300
hey yeah yeah that's the correct answer

1033
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:27,590
yeah it looks great it's fully

1034
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:29,810
vaccinated actually both my kids got

1035
00:46:34,510 --> 00:46:32,510
chickenpox last year

1036
00:46:35,950 --> 00:46:34,520
they were both vaccinated but it meant

1037
00:46:38,590 --> 00:46:35,960
that they didn't have a serious a case

1038
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:38,600
thank goodness a friend of hers got it

1039
00:46:43,690 --> 00:46:42,050
twice and I got the flu this year it was

1040
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:43,700
you know they did a swab and everything

1041
00:46:47,860 --> 00:46:46,730
but I had been vaccinated so it wasn't

1042
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:47,870
as bad as it could have been so

1043
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:50,240
different strains that what happened it

1044
00:46:55,090 --> 00:46:51,650
was one of the strains it was just that

1045
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:55,100
I just got a weakened sort of reaction

1046
00:46:58,210 --> 00:46:56,570
to it not the full-on reaction which is

1047
00:47:00,430 --> 00:46:58,220
really good because I did once have the

1048
00:47:02,290 --> 00:47:00,440
flu which was you just want to die it's

1049
00:47:04,330 --> 00:47:02,300
awful but I survived this reasonably

1050
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:04,340
well and actually hang out with other

1051
00:47:07,780 --> 00:47:06,350
mothers when when you now have a kid do

1052
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:07,790
you do our any of them like not

1053
00:47:11,290 --> 00:47:10,190
vaccinating or or had they got a child

1054
00:47:13,090 --> 00:47:11,300
that has perhaps a little bit different

1055
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:13,100
they blame on the vaccine at all I

1056
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:15,650
haven't had any blaming on the vaccine

1057
00:47:19,420 --> 00:47:17,330
I've got quite a few friends who have

1058
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:19,430
kids with autism other on the spectrum

1059
00:47:23,950 --> 00:47:22,310
and they get really lucky when people

1060
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:23,960
try and say it's something to do with

1061
00:47:30,010 --> 00:47:26,240
you know vaccines or nutrition or

1062
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:30,020
something rather but there are a lot of

1063
00:47:37,390 --> 00:47:33,200
parents who are into things that I would

1064
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:37,400
consider not evidence but not evidence

1065
00:47:43,060 --> 00:47:38,530
yeah well put it that way

1066
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:43,070
so I bite my tongue quite often or I'll

1067
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:44,570
just say a few little things or I'll

1068
00:47:48,730 --> 00:47:47,630
just kind of just walk away but it's one

1069
00:47:51,070 --> 00:47:48,740
of those things where you know you don't

1070
00:47:52,990 --> 00:47:51,080
want to sabotage the friendship that's

1071
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:53,000
right yeah but they're coming from a

1072
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:54,770
completely different place to you and

1073
00:47:58,780 --> 00:47:56,960
you just gotta kind of pick your moments

1074
00:48:00,010 --> 00:47:58,790
and pick your battles and there are

1075
00:48:01,930 --> 00:48:00,020
people out there that have got friends

1076
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:01,940
like that what's your advice just just

1077
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,310
keep away from it or just how subtle

1078
00:48:08,770 --> 00:48:07,520
have you got to be pretty subtle depends

1079
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:08,780
on how much they know about you I don't

1080
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:10,970
think these people then they know that I

1081
00:48:14,670 --> 00:48:13,010
love science and that kind of thing I

1082
00:48:18,580 --> 00:48:14,680
don't think they know where I am today

1083
00:48:19,780 --> 00:48:18,590
but if it let's get decline I don't know

1084
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:19,790
it's like anything at you you're not

1085
00:48:23,110 --> 00:48:21,110
just talking to them you're talking to

1086
00:48:25,110 --> 00:48:23,120
the people who might be listening and

1087
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:25,120
you just saw a little seeds of

1088
00:48:29,980 --> 00:48:28,010
questioning ask them questions don't try

1089
00:48:33,570 --> 00:48:29,990
and tell them anything one of the talks

1090
00:48:35,490 --> 00:48:33,580
yesterday you can't change someone's

1091
00:48:37,770 --> 00:48:35,500
view when it's so embedded in who they

1092
00:48:38,820 --> 00:48:37,780
are as a person if you're challenging

1093
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:38,830
their you're challenging them as a

1094
00:48:47,710 --> 00:48:46,420
touched open the soundproof booth here

1095
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:47,720
where I'm here with the rent and look

1096
00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:49,970
was in look god what do you make you've

1097
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:51,350
been to a lot of skeptical events how

1098
00:48:56,590 --> 00:48:53,090
does this weekend in Melbourne stack up

1099
00:48:58,570 --> 00:48:56,600
I like the echo in here hello hello yes

1100
00:49:00,820 --> 00:48:58,580
have a second what I think it's great I

1101
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:00,830
think the luckily it's a very

1102
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:03,530
enthusiastic audience and a fantastic

1103
00:49:08,980 --> 00:49:06,560
mix of speakers very good mix I enjoy

1104
00:49:11,410 --> 00:49:08,990
Joe Thornley on cults of course the SG

1105
00:49:12,910 --> 00:49:11,420
or as good as they always are III really

1106
00:49:15,550 --> 00:49:12,920
like the fact that a vessel

1107
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:15,560
I've enjoyed pretty much all the

1108
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:17,690
speakers I think the what's what's great

1109
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:19,400
about a sceptical event is when it

1110
00:49:22,990 --> 00:49:21,170
doesn't focus on just skepticism one of

1111
00:49:24,220 --> 00:49:23,000
the things that marks the skeptical

1112
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:24,230
movement is that people are interested

1113
00:49:27,370 --> 00:49:26,090
in all kinds of different things and to

1114
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:27,380
create the right mix to make sure that

1115
00:49:29,890 --> 00:49:28,610
everybody's interested throughout the

1116
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:29,900
weekend and of course there could be

1117
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:31,370
something that maybe a little bit less

1118
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,720
interested in or more interested in

1119
00:49:36,370 --> 00:49:34,160
that's really important and I think

1120
00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:36,380
they've done a wonderful job here of

1121
00:49:40,780 --> 00:49:38,360
creating the right mix but also the

1122
00:49:43,150 --> 00:49:40,790
speakers have been great the I don't

1123
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:43,160
think there's been any flops and you

1124
00:49:47,380 --> 00:49:45,770
know most conventions have one or two

1125
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:47,390
speakers well just not as good in terms

1126
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:49,190
of how about going they are how well

1127
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:51,920
they project themselves so it's great

1128
00:49:56,830 --> 00:49:55,010
it's really a fantastic job and it's

1129
00:50:00,250 --> 00:49:56,840
it's really great I congratulate the

1130
00:50:06,410 --> 00:50:03,530
well the common area upstairs Downstairs

1131
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:06,420
from the theater is just empty now we've

1132
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:09,090
got people packing things away and it's

1133
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:10,650
sort of a sad thing whenever it gets

1134
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:12,690
packed it's it's relief that it's over

1135
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:14,040
but it's a bit of a sad thing with other

1136
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:15,420
things have to get packed up isn't it

1137
00:50:20,660 --> 00:50:18,930
it certainly is it is but it's been a

1138
00:50:22,580 --> 00:50:20,670
good convention so that's the important

1139
00:50:23,810 --> 00:50:22,590
things everyone saying great things down

1140
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:23,820
there particularly said they have did

1141
00:50:28,670 --> 00:50:25,170
you see that person cleaning the coffee

1142
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:28,680
mug on here's the troublemaker let's

1143
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:30,810
have a chat to him now because also that

1144
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:32,700
oh yeah he goes he goes with the coffee

1145
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:34,170
machine here now are you at these

1146
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:36,570
troublemakers

1147
00:50:42,020 --> 00:50:40,250
oh right now I hope you got a good

1148
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:42,030
talking-to for that I did actually idea

1149
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:44,130
where actually the sauce off off to have

1150
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:47,220
a fist fight now I think oh look it's

1151
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:48,800
and how do you feel when you have people

1152
00:50:52,460 --> 00:50:51,090
celebrating than your name on t-shirts

1153
00:50:55,610 --> 00:50:52,470
like that it's all in a good point I

1154
00:50:57,590 --> 00:50:55,620
love it who the fist is Bob novella it

1155
00:50:59,540 --> 00:50:57,600
says it's fantastic for the family

1156
00:51:01,010 --> 00:50:59,550
viewers out there there you know and

1157
00:51:02,180 --> 00:51:01,020
that's been about the most scandal

1158
00:51:03,530 --> 00:51:02,190
that's been here all weekend bit

1159
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:03,540
disappointed really normally there's

1160
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:06,210
something someone gets canceled culture

1161
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:08,610
goes on but no you know the t-shirts the

1162
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:10,260
best we could get well I think I heard

1163
00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:11,310
you didn't do anything this time my

1164
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:13,830
tights are too busy talking to people

1165
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:15,930
and house yes to Union now that that

1166
00:51:19,310 --> 00:51:17,520
you've done all your performances sorry

1167
00:51:21,290 --> 00:51:19,320
yeah how's this Charlie did you shows go

1168
00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:21,300
well show they all went wonderfully a

1169
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:24,030
lot of fun a lot of laughing a lot of

1170
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:25,530
stuff that doesn't make it to the final

1171
00:51:28,490 --> 00:51:26,970
edit about how much normally gets cut

1172
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:28,500
out of the live show when it goes to air

1173
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:31,440
a live show not we have to be kind of on

1174
00:51:36,650 --> 00:51:33,530
point and efficient for the live show

1175
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:36,660
but not not that much there's much more

1176
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:38,250
cut for when we record from home because

1177
00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:40,920
we can record for three hours and a lot

1178
00:51:45,290 --> 00:51:42,870
of that's cut so we cut we cut things

1179
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:45,300
that I can't even talk about because I'm

1180
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:46,920
contractually obligated not to mention

1181
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:51,710
look at the end of the weekend we got

1182
00:51:55,460 --> 00:51:53,850
mr. conspiracy of one year about to be

1183
00:51:59,780 --> 00:51:55,470
sent back up to behind the banana

1184
00:52:01,280 --> 00:51:59,790
curtain oh yes I'm a cane toad and have

1185
00:52:02,540 --> 00:52:01,290
you enjoyed this skeptical conference

1186
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:02,550
and you've been to a few other ones

1187
00:52:08,510 --> 00:52:04,130
haven't you this is actually my first

1188
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:08,520
loved it Wow look how was it performing

1189
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,140
to a room that where people are talking

1190
00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:12,000
and then looking and then talking it

1191
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:13,500
must have been an odd dynamic view as a

1192
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:16,110
performer not as a musician I've dealt

1193
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:18,090
with that quite a lot okay

1194
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:21,570
at two a roomful of skeptics who might

1195
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:23,430
one of my target audiences it was a bit

1196
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:26,730
different but I loved it what's been

1197
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:28,260
your favorite thing all weekend here

1198
00:52:32,510 --> 00:52:29,610
what do you did the talk you got man

1199
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:32,520
that was good as far as talks go hey

1200
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:34,890
they've been too many good ones of all

1201
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:40,410
different topics I suppose but I think

1202
00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:42,180
the thing that I've loved the most out

1203
00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:43,950
of the whole weekend has been the people

1204
00:52:49,730 --> 00:52:46,470
meeting like-minded people like-minded

1205
00:52:51,770 --> 00:52:49,740
people who are good humans and getting

1206
00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:51,780
to know them have you got me think that

1207
00:52:55,070 --> 00:52:53,310
might have inspired you to write

1208
00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:55,080
anything you've gotten the inspiration

1209
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:57,300
for any more creativity from the weekend

1210
00:53:01,130 --> 00:52:59,280
probably I'll have to check the notes in

1211
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:01,140
my phone I usually have an idea write it

1212
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:02,490
down and then go I'll look at that later

1213
00:53:31,289 --> 00:53:05,690
okay and we can find conspiracy of one

1214
00:53:35,710 --> 00:53:33,609
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1215
00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:35,720
zone now normally when I'm recording the

1216
00:53:40,930 --> 00:53:39,049
skeptic zone and planes fly overhead I'm

1217
00:53:42,779 --> 00:53:40,940
stop the recording or I just started

1218
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:42,789
again I'll do whatever but right now

1219
00:53:55,170 --> 00:53:51,890
what's that I don't know if you can hear

1220
00:53:59,370 --> 00:53:55,180
that out the studio window it's a plane

1221
00:54:02,980 --> 00:53:59,380
it's one of the signs of the time as of

1222
00:54:04,750 --> 00:54:02,990
four or five six days ago the air

1223
00:54:10,299 --> 00:54:04,760
traffic going over the studio has

1224
00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:10,309
decreased remarkably or markedly and now

1225
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:13,569
it's wow there's a plane going overhead

1226
00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:17,839
it's just one of the strange strange

1227
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:20,200
things I could never expect at this time

1228
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,270
that I would actually enjoy hearing a

1229
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:26,000
plane going overhead because as you all

1230
00:54:30,490 --> 00:54:27,890
know the air traffic around the world

1231
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:30,500
has been dramatically decreased now a

1232
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:33,410
very heartfelt thanks to my patreon zand

1233
00:54:41,890 --> 00:54:36,559
subscribers via PayPal and patron of

1234
00:54:43,930 --> 00:54:41,900
course at skeptic zone TV suffice it to

1235
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:43,940
say that there like many people like

1236
00:54:48,819 --> 00:54:45,890
thousands of people of course around the

1237
00:54:55,359 --> 00:54:48,829
world I too have lost a lot of our other

1238
00:54:57,940 --> 00:54:55,369
income owing to the huge downturn now in

1239
00:55:00,599 --> 00:54:57,950
work in the entertainment field so now

1240
00:55:03,730 --> 00:55:00,609
more than ever the skeptic zone

1241
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:03,740
absolutely relies on listeners just like

1242
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:06,770
you and the good news the good news is

1243
00:55:11,950 --> 00:55:10,250
if you if you subscribe with patreon in

1244
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:11,960
the u.s. dollars so if you're in the

1245
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:14,690
United States and you I think it's

1246
00:55:22,059 --> 00:55:20,690
worthy to chip in to help your dollar is

1247
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:22,069
almost worth double

1248
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:25,839
in Australia so people who maybe

1249
00:55:30,670 --> 00:55:27,970
contributed with five dollars a month

1250
00:55:32,589 --> 00:55:30,680
that five dollars magically turns into

1251
00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:32,599
almost ten eight dollars something or

1252
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:34,760
other by the time of the conversion

1253
00:55:43,059 --> 00:55:38,210
because our dollar is sinking against

1254
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:43,069
the US currency so I hope I hope you

1255
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:43,810
consider the

1256
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:46,000
this show and other skeptical podcasts

1257
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:48,610
my colleagues around the world skeptoid

1258
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:51,850
squaring the strange the ESP skeptics

1259
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:54,910
with a que les GU of course the geologic

1260
00:55:59,610 --> 00:55:57,130
podcast are worthy of your support at

1261
00:56:03,150 --> 00:55:59,620
this time and not forgetting maynard's

1262
00:56:05,220 --> 00:56:03,160
podcasts at Maynard com got a you but

1263
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:05,230
for this week this is Richard Saunders

1264
00:56:17,370 --> 00:56:14,460
you've been listening to the skeptic

1265
00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:17,380
zone podcast please visit our website at

1266
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:24,070
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1267
00:56:30,210 --> 00:56:27,570
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1268
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:30,220
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1269
00:56:35,820 --> 00:56:33,520
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1270
00:56:39,150 --> 00:56:35,830
facebook page or leave a review on

1271
00:56:42,540 --> 00:56:39,160
iTunes you can also support the skeptic

1272
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:42,550
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1273
00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:44,890
zone podcast is an independent

1274
00:56:49,050 --> 00:56:46,660
production the views and opinions

1275
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:49,060
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1276
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:51,190
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1277
00:57:04,930 --> 00:56:54,130
or any other sceptical organisation

1278
00:57:11,299 --> 00:57:09,140
okay this is a book of Tim and I'm gonna

1279
00:57:13,849 --> 00:57:11,309
just do a slightly thing that I'd like

1280
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:13,859
to do first okay I'm feeling a bit

1281
00:57:18,849 --> 00:57:16,170
peckish so I think I might go downstairs

1282
00:57:21,140 --> 00:57:18,859
and see what's in the fridge

1283
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:21,150
okay let's have a look inside the fridge

1284
00:57:32,299 --> 00:57:29,539
- frozen cats on a stick I wonder where

1285
00:57:34,609 --> 00:57:32,309
they got to I might have one now and I

1286
00:57:36,979 --> 00:57:34,619
might have one later on in the meantime

1287
00:57:51,140 --> 00:57:36,989
please sit back and enjoy the skipped

1288
00:57:53,239 --> 00:57:51,150
exam stairs are getting food I know you

1289
00:57:57,549 --> 00:57:53,249
have to get make the artist feel good I

1290
00:58:06,200 --> 00:57:57,559
wanted Ryan patronize the artist the one

1291
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:06,210
the talent I saw the product sometimes